MACS interviews Lord Blunkett – episode 1: Overcoming Barriers

The transcript of the interview is available below.

[Robbie Crow, MACS Chair] So I think today's been good for MACS because It's allowed us to really broaden the appeal that we have to our older members. Historically MACS has been very focused on offering support and guidance to parents; to parents of visually impaired children and also to young visually impaired children themselves. However, I think today marks a change in tide, so to speak, in the fact that we are starting to offer support and guidance to the older MACS adults and younger MACS adults who, after they have grown up with the condition, they then have to go out into life and live with the condition.

To have Lord Blunkett really address the MACS members and the wider audience on his life, his career in politics and the barriers he's faced, I hope will allow visually impaired adults like myself and other MACS adults to really learn that nothing is impossible and to just aim for the top.

[Abbie Clive, interviewer]: My name's Abbie and I'm going to be interviewing our guest today who is Lord David Blunkett. Hello Lord Blunkett!

[Lord Blunkett]: Yes, you can call me David, Abbie, if that's ok with you?

[Abbie]: Ok, Ok!

[Lord Blunkett]: Thank you very much indeed for inviting me

[Abbie] Thank you for coming. It's lovely to meet you, lovely to have you here today.
What barriers have you faced, real or perceived, and how have you overcome them?

[Lord Blunkett]: I think most barriers are about attitude, aren't they? About other people's attitude, about people making a presumption based on their thinking, rather than listening to what you have got to tell them and then being there and helping. So, in the early days, the barriers were about people thinking that I couldn't do what I wanted to do. For instance, when I wanted to stand for the council way back, Sheffield City Council, there were people who were highly sceptical, 'How's this guy who can't see going to represent us? How's he going to do the practical work? How will he read the policy papers?' and you had to work it through with people and explain what was going to happen. And they took the chance on me, the local branch, to put me up for election, and it was a particular challenge because I was only 22, couldn't see, and you got asked some very odd questions, 'How will you deal with someone who's got a drain blocked at their house?', so I said 'Well I won't put my arm down it!'

[Laughter]

'I'll ring up what in those days was the Public Health Dept and see if we can get it sorted' so it was all the time having to explain. When I went into Parliament, I understand why people were as they were, because there was no history here. People weren't used to someone who had no sight being around. I had to argue, took the best part of a year, to get them to provide me with additional resources in terms of equipment for brailling, additional staffing so that people could read the material, either to me or on to old-fashioned cassettes, (I still use the old-fashioned cassettes!) and therefore, I could work on equal terms. And it took a long time and a lot of argument and a working party that was set up to examine whether what I was asking for was legit and was acceptable. It made it possible for me to do the job and in doing the job, to demonstrate to the world that it could be done. I think that was the most critical moment because if I'd not had the resources to do the job and I'd made a mess of it, then people would have said 'Oh well, blind people aren't able to work at that level, they're not able to do it'. That would have a knock on effect with other disabilities as well. So you're opening doors, and then you're putting the wedge in the door to make sure you keep it open. All my life I've been thinking, what I do will affect attitudes, will affect how other people will be able to succeed. So I've always perhaps overdone it a bit, been too thorough, spent too much time, (when I was in government I worked pretty well 16 hours a day) just to make sure that no one could ever say that I was under-briefed because I couldn't see. I used to say to them 'By all means criticise if you don't like my politics, or if I've made a mess of stuff, but you'll never be able to criticise me because I haven't done the homework, and I'm not on top of the brief.' because that would have affected everyone else coming up behind me, wouldn't it?

[Abbie]: I think that what you've said there just shows that you're very tenacious and very determined.

[Lord Blunkett]: and pig-headed! I think my wife Margaret would second that!

[Laughter]

[Lord Blunkett]: You never ever do things on your own, it's always a two-way street. You have to make the effort but other people around you supporting you, just being there when you need a helping hand the most, that's about mutuality, isn't it? If we can get that message across, that people can do it, but they need that helping hand to make it possible.

[Abbie]: Being blind, I don't think it makes things impossible, I think you just need a little bit more, as you say, a helping hand. Some things are a little bit more difficult but they're not impossible and it does annoy me when people say that things are. I must say, it doesn't bode well with me at all!

[Lord Blunkett]: Well good for you, because you should never take no for an answer. You know what you can't do, I mean, we know we're not going to fly a plane, even though the instruments could probably do it. But we do know what we can do. We just need that booster, that help, that bit of understanding and opportunity, because quite often, people don't get the opportunity to be able to demonstrate their talent. We've got to open that up, which is why I mentioned earlier getting through to employers. If I can, in the years that are left in me, if I can get the message across that I didn't just do this out of the blue, I'm not special special, I just happened to be in the right place and have the right tenacity to do it. There's lots of people out there with disabilities including multiple disabilities who just need that chance, don't they?

[Abbie]: Yes, yes

[Lord Blunkett]: and also to say to employers that there is a programme run by the Dept for Work and Pensions called Access to Work, they've just agreed to restore some of the funding that was cut out of it after the austerity measures. It's available for individuals to link up with employers to facilitate people getting to work, being at work, adaptations at work, maybe individual personal support, to make it possible to do things. I'm hoping that we can persuade the government that that Access to Work fund could be available for people volunteering or tasters in work so that people could build their confidence and demonstrate that they could do it.

[Abbie]: Yes, I completely agree with you on that one.

[Lord Blunkett]: We've still got an enormous long way to go in terms of facilities and equal opportunity and access to leisure and to work, haven't we? You must be finding that Abbie, as well. I'm in danger of interviewing you if I'm not careful!

[Laughter]

But you must find that, mustn't you, it's still a big challenge, isn't it?

[Abbie]: Yes, it's definitely a challenge for all of us.

[Lord Blunkett]: And the challenge doesn't disappear if people are positive and helpful, but it makes it a lot easier

[Abbie]: It does make it a lot easier for all of us, I think.

[Lord Blunkett]: So I think that's one of the messages that we, collectively, all of us have got to get out. I still try and do that, including from the House of Lords.

[Applause]

[Robbie, MACS Chair]: Thank you to Abbie for doing the interview. Thank you to David for coming along. [Applause]

[Lord Blunkett]: Well done Abbie!

[Abbie]: Thank you!

[Audience member, Ibrahim]: I thought he was quite inspiring, especially as a blind person himself. To see where he's got to, coming from a time when there was no support for visually impaired and blind people, to a time where now it has improved.

[Audience member, Grace]: He said ''Never take no as an answer' because sometimes I think I might give up too easily because I'm not sure that I'll be able to do it. So I think it was really good advice to never take no for an answer.

[Ibrahim] It doesn't matter if you're visually impaired or whatever disability that you do have, but just know that there is support out there and you will have to ask for it but don't let it be a barrier towards what you want to do.

[End music]

This special podcast was made possible by the Microphthalmia, Anophthalmia and Coloboma Support charity.

The episode was written by Helen O'Brien (MACS) and produced by Audio Oli, Oli Harrisson.

To find out more about MACS please visit www.macs.org.uk